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Sources/Eidos Forums: Monkeythumbz posts

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From 2012, George Kelion, the community manager of Square Enix London Studios, began to interact with the Legacy of Kain community at the Eidos Forums under the username Monkeythumbz, in the wake of the announcement of Nosgoth. Kelion's posts are archived here at the Legacy of Kain Wiki, with their original URLs and other context-dependent user posts included, for historical purposes and posterity's sake.

Please note that all quotations are transcribed verbatim without any independent spelling or grammar correction. All wikilinks, however, have been applied to the original text by the Legacy of Kain Wiki, to add extra context and help facilitate additional research on the reader's part.

Monkeythumbz posts[edit | edit source]

2013[edit | edit source]

New Nosgoth Game in Development: Confirmed[edit | edit source]

"Square-Enix has confirmed to VG247 that Crystal Dynamics is not developing ‘Nosgoth’, but that the new project that is linked to the Legacy of Kain franchise.
"In a statement sent to VG247 this morning, a Square source confirmed that a studio is actively developing the title. The source told us, “Nosgoth exists and is in active development, but is not a traditional Legacy of Kain action-adventure game”, and added, “Nosgoth is set in the same universe as previous LoK games, but on a different branch to the Blood Omen and Soul Reaver series.”
"Our source explained that the reason for talking to us about the project was to clear the air following Nosgoth leaks that came from AMD and Steam. The game will not be announced at E3, but the source added that Square is very excited about the concept.
"They added, “We don’t want people to get the wrong idea about Nosgoth following the AMD and Steam leaks ahead of its future official announcement. Nosgoth is not being developed by Crystal Dynamics,” and added, “Crystal Dynamics are not working on a Legacy of Kain game”.
"In closing our source at the publisher said, “This isn’t something we’d normally do, but we wanted to just give folks a bit more context for the direction, rather than just batten down the hatches.”"
"I'm not sure what to make of this new multiplayer game. It could pull in a lot of new fans and build enough interest to get a new single player chapter in the story. On the other hand, it's a completely different team and a completely different type of game. I just hope they understand what the series is all about and don't contradict what has come before.
"EDIT: Just as a precaution, though. It might be worth trying to arrange a discussion with George (or someone on the actual dev team) just to see how much they know about the series so far."
"Making sure that we respect the series canon is something we take very seriously. I know you'll think I'd say that anyway, but we're devoted fans of the lore established in the previous games, so it's only natural we'd want to ensure Nosgoth both complements them and expands upon them.
"I'm all up for having a discussion... but all in good time. Right now, we're all heads-down and nose to the grindstone in the preparation phase, getting all the various materials in place etc, and we want to make sure that the game feels right before speaking about it more plainly and openly.
"As I told VG247, I'm sorry to be so cagey... we just felt it was important to tell you what Nosgoth *isn't* so as to properly manage your expectations. The time to tell you what Nosgoth *is* will be coming soon, but not just yet.
"Anyway, pleasure to make your collective acquaintance. Just for full disclosure, my fave game in the series was SR2 on PS2, although I did really enjoy BO2 as well (it had some really nice mechanics and looked great on the original Xbox)."
—George "Monkeythumbz" Kelion, 06-10-2013, 12:15 PM[1]
"Oh, I was hoping you could drop by, thank you! So, did you like SR1 too? :) What is your part on the project Nosgoth? If you can say that, ofc. :D
"I think we are all just mainly afraid if the game will be good and hoping it will be the genre we like. It is a big thing to us since we have been waiting to hear anything about the world of Nosgoth for years and now we find out there is a game about our fav series.
"I was especially afraid that they will change too much if it would be a reboot, great to hear you are keeping the history as it is. I hope the game will be unveiled soon (hoping for very very soon :D)."
―—Raina Audron
"I loved SR1 (played it on the Dreamcast) - the story was just magnificent, although I feel that almost every gameplay mechanic was improved on in SR2 (and SR2 had more interesting environments too, IMHO).
"On Nosgoth, I'm the game's Community Manager - which as a long-time LoK fanboy is pretty much a dream gig! I look forward to discussing my exact involvement so far in greater detail once we're ready to do so.
"With regards to genre, all I can say right now is that you really shouldn't be thinking of Nosgoth as a game in terms of a single-player experience."
—George "Monkeythumbz" Kelion, 06-10-2013, 03:57 PM[2]
"I didn't realise you were watching! I understand there wouldn't be much you could answer right now. I know a few fans have done in person interviews before, but I'm not sure I'd have the confidence to do that myself. Maybe when the project is further along and I'm less busy, I could convince someone to come with me or perhaps just send some questions over email.
"For now, I'd just want to ask whether anyone on the team has read Amy's notes from before she left crystal dynamics or any notes on The Dark Prophecy? Would you consider releasing any of that info along with the game?
"Will the information given outside of the games such as in FAQs be taken into account. In particular the ones here where it is explained how Raziel's present self is trapped in the blade, but his future self (the wraith blade) is released into Kain.
"Finally, do you have any idea what would need to happen for a HD collection or a port of the dreamcast version of SR1? Is it technical issues or is it just a case of someone giving it the green light?"
"The truth is I don't know about Amy's notes, although I know I personally haven't read them (even though the prospect has me salivating). Even if I did know, I'm not even sure what I'd be allowed to say, especially as Crystal Dynamics aren't involved with Nosgoth and I assume her notes would be their property. So yes, "i don't know" is the only answer I can give right now.
"Regarding extraneous information, the answer is "yes" and "no". "Yes" in the sense that we've done our very best to absorb all knowledge about LoK's narrative as revealed in the games and elsewhere, and "no" in the sense that it's not really relevant to Nosgoth. As I said in my statement, Nosgoth is very much on a seperate branch of the LoK mythos to Soul Reaver and Blood Omen (and, by extension, Defiance). It's definitely the same familiar universe, though.
"Regarding an HD collection, I'm afraid I have absolutely no information about that to share, I'm afraid. I would have thought that all the games being playable on Steam would have circumvented this issue, though?"
—George "Monkeythumbz" Kelion, 06-10-2013, 09:28 PM[3]
"Quite frankly, He, Square, Eidos.... anyone.... Did not HAVE to say anything
"They have done MORE than they have had to do by telling us ANYTHING, it shows they give a damn about our expectations and our fevor atleast.
"Secondly, George -definitely- did not have to come here to a public board to post ANYTHING in response to us... so being a little obtuse in your response is not all that necessary now, is it?
"Yes, its obvious we all know about its existence... but they were not planning on revealing anything yet and first impressions are damned important. When they have something ready that they are happy for us to see and criticize, they will reveal it to us. until then, take ANY official info you get as a blessing, because there are other people and companies that would just feign indifference even with the kind of leaks that "Nosgoth" has had."
―—Pillar of Balance
"That's okay, I understand that tensions are running high about this game. Heck, when they first told me about Nosgoth, as a big LoK fan I needed to be convinced just as much as you lot! I'm happy to say that having got my hands on it plus having seen what we're doing with it and the attention lavished on it, I'm now very much an enthusiast and I look forward to sharing that enthusiasm with you all (relatively) soon.
"Again, sorry to be so vague. And sorry if my presence here is only sporadic, as I said we're still very much in the preparation phase."
—George "Monkeythumbz" Kelion, 06-10-2013, 09:28 PM[3]
"Thank you for your answers! Will Nosgoth have its own section here on LOK forums?
"I´d love to see DC version of SR1 got ported over to pc too because the pc version of SR1 has messed up audio - skipping dialouge in cutscenes, sounds looping forever, no real-time full ost music... I can´t really enjoy otherwise awesome game like that, while the DC version has none of these problems.
"Can you maybe tell us how long the game has been in development? Do you mean preparation phase as for showing the game to us, or preparation in terms of conceptual phase for the game?"
―—Raina Audron
"Nosgoth will eventually get its own forums - I don't see the need to convert these (frankly fantastic) forums over to Nosgoth, especially as it's on a different branch to SR and BO.
"Regarding HD ports and remakes of SR or BO games... I'm really the wrong guy to ask, I'm afraid. I mean, I'm very far away from that kind of decision making and don't really have any insight to share about that. While I'm the CM for Nosgoth, that doesn't give me visibility on every aspect of the LoK franchise as a whole, nor am I party to all decisions made about its future.
"As for preparation, I mean that we're prepping to show you the game and get it into a fit state for hands-on trials."
—George "Monkeythumbz" Kelion, 06-11-2013, 02:23 PM[4]
"I'm just nervous as hell, that's all. LOK is my favorite game series after all and the possibility of a new game that might make the series take the final leap into obscurity isn't all that bright for me. Of course, it may also revive the series, but the less you hope for, the less disappointed you get."
―—Count D
"Believe me, I know how you feel and I'm both hoping *and* working towards you not being disappointed."
—George "Monkeythumbz" Kelion, 06-11-2013, 02:23 PM[4]
"[...] I agree with Count D. Just because they seem to show the interest in "keeping the lore" (and will probably put something completely new in it) or similar that doesn't mean that I'll be happy about the upcoming game. [...]"
"I hear and understand your passion, really I do, and I do my best to reflect that and pass it onto the team - not just because it's my job, but also because I'm a fan. However, as one fan to another (and i REALLY don't mean to be antagonistic and I'm not saying we're doing this with Nosgoth, but...) "putting something completely new into the lore" has happened with each and every LoK game release. The Hylden themselves or even the Elder God and the spectral realm are just a few examples I can think of. All I'm saying is that if it's handled well, adding something new to the lore is not always a bad idea. NOT that I'm saying we're doing that with Nosgoth, nor am I saying that an unproven title like Nosgoth ought to be afforded the same candour as those legendary games... I just felt that it needed to be said, as a fan of LoK."
—George "Monkeythumbz" Kelion, 06-11-2013, 02:23 PM[4]
"[...] Anyway, I have a question for the community manager.
"Why is it multiplayer and not singleplayer?"
―—Count D
"Because of the concept - it's the game we and the devs wanted to make."
—George "Monkeythumbz" Kelion, 06-11-2013, 02:23 PM[4]
"[...] There may not be a lot to reveal at this time. If Im building a car, I cant really show it off until some parts of it are finished. Im not going to tell you it has a V8 until I find out if I have the space under the hood, and the resources for it. [...]"
―—Strands of Night
"^This. This so much. And it's not just about the engine, you also want the rims and interior to look nice (and smell nice) too, for the brakes to function as expected, for the steering to have just the right feel. Everything has to come together."
—George "Monkeythumbz" Kelion, 06-11-2013, 02:23 PM[4]
"Thank you for the answers. I have a few more questions (if you can´t answer, no problem :)):
"a) Will the game be in line with artistic direction of the previous games, or take on a new direction?
"b) Could you maybe elaborate what does Black Cloth refer to or is it a spoiler of some sort?
"c) Do you think this new game might attract even non-LOK fans to play it?
"d) Is it true that the game had at one point in time a sp mode as well?"
―—Raina Audron
"I'm sorry, but I really can't speak to any of that at present. Right now, I'm afraid you'll just have to wait and see.
"This is the trouble with releasing info early... lots of very pertinent and reasonable questions get raised, however we can't answer them without detracting from the big reveal. Please bear with us and we'll be able to give a full account of the game in due course."
—George "Monkeythumbz" Kelion, 06-11-2013, 03:11 PM[5]
"May I ask what you mean by hands-on-trials? Is there going to be a demo of the game available? Is this just going to be for your testing team or can fans get involved? [...]"
"Yes ;)"
—George "Monkeythumbz" Kelion, 06-12-2013, 11:45 AM[6]
"[...] My questions however................if they can be answered, as I am sure they are on the minds of others....... is Nosgoth a mobile game or a potential next gen title?, Will there be Ancients, Vampires, Demons or Hylden? [...]"
"Nosgoth is not a mobile game. Also, we're mostly influenced by LoK:SR1... make of that what you will."
—George "Monkeythumbz" Kelion, 06-12-2013, 11:45 AM[6]
"[...] make of th.... You sir are a shameless tease ^.^"
―—Pillar of Balance
"Guilty as charged. :P"
—George "Monkeythumbz" Kelion, 06-12-2013, 01:17 PM[7]
"I mean that the combat system, power-ups and unlockable areas... not sure about plane switching... One thing I'm hoping for is a big open world to explore and see some familiar areas in it :)"
"Nosgoth is not open-world."
—George "Monkeythumbz" Kelion, 06-13-2013, 09:48 PM[8]

The 10 Cancelled Legacy of Kains[edit | edit source]

"I’ve seen the post on NeoGAF about Legacy of Kain: Dead Sun and I thought you might want a bit more information. I can confirm that this was a project which had been in development - but which was cancelled.
"I know it’s disappointing to hear about these things out of context, and whilst some of the details released are accurate - some details are not. You know game projects can be cancelled for a variety of different reasons and I know it’s very hard to tell from images and info alone, but in the end LoK: Dead Sun just wasn’t the right game, at the right time… but you’ll have to take me at my word on that, I’m afraid.
"Obviously, it’s not usual for assets from cancelled games to be released, but given that there’s a lot out there already I thought you might appreciate seeing a few more images that were taken from the previously in-progress game.
"As you’ll be aware, we’re currently working on a multiplayer game firmly set within the Legacy of Kain universe called Nosgoth, which we’re very proud of. It’s grown in size and scope since its initial conception and we’ll be talking more about it in the future. While we’re not working on a single-player Legacy of Kain game right now, that doesn’t mean it’s not something we’d look at making in the future."
—George "Monkeythumbz" Kelion, 06-10-2013, 09:28 PM[3]

Attribution[edit | edit source]

With thanks to George Kelion and all other aforementioned Eidos Forums contributors.

This material is copyrighted by Square Enix Europe, or belongs to another body or individual. We believe that its use constitutes Fair Use under international copyright law.

See also[edit | edit source]

References[edit | edit source]

  1. Icon-Eidos.png New Nosgoth Game in Development: Confirmed at the Eidos Forums (by Aevum), post #211 (by Monkeythumbz)
  2. Icon-Eidos.png New Nosgoth Game in Development: Confirmed at the Eidos Forums (by Aevum), post #216 (by Monkeythumbz)
  3. 3.0 3.1 3.2 Icon-Eidos.png New Nosgoth Game in Development: Confirmed at the Eidos Forums (by Aevum), post #223 (by Monkeythumbz)
  4. 4.0 4.1 4.2 4.3 4.4 Icon-Eidos.png New Nosgoth Game in Development: Confirmed at the Eidos Forums (by Aevum), post #241 (by Monkeythumbz)
  5. Icon-Eidos.png New Nosgoth Game in Development: Confirmed at the Eidos Forums (by Aevum), post #246 (by Monkeythumbz)
  6. 6.0 6.1 Icon-Eidos.png New Nosgoth Game in Development: Confirmed at the Eidos Forums (by Aevum), post #275 (by Monkeythumbz)
  7. Icon-Eidos.png New Nosgoth Game in Development: Confirmed at the Eidos Forums (by Aevum), post #277 (by Monkeythumbz)
  8. Icon-Eidos.png New Nosgoth Game in Development: Confirmed at the Eidos Forums (by Aevum), post #300 (by Monkeythumbz)