Talk:Vae victis

From Legacy of Kain Wiki
Jump to: navigation, search

I don't want to edit it in case I'm incorrect, but I'm almost positive that I'm not. I think it's spelled Vae Victus, not Victis. It's the motto on my family heraldry, and there, it's spelled Vae Victus, and has been since at least the time of my great-grandparents. 75.71.172.11 02:15, April 15, 2013 (UTC)

Hi - we're not out to make a commentary on whether the correct form is "Victus" or "victis", at least not in our own right. Not knowing a lot of Latin, what I considered when I moved the page under this name was the corresponding Wikipedia article, the page for the term at Dark Chronicle, the official Blood Omen 1 script, and the in-game subtitles from Defiance (which, if I recall, actually switch between "Vae victis" and "Vae victus" depending on who's saying it - but I guarantee that Raziel's in the cutscene is defnitely "Vae victis"). None of these sources recommend the use of "Vae Victus" over the alternative.
Although Silicon Knights' FAQ gave "Vae Victus", it should be noted that that site has lots of slapdash spelling and grammar. Dark Chronicle notes that "it appears that Vae Victis is a more common spelling", and that - on top of the above sources - formulates the basis by which this article has its title.
If there is solid (non-anecdotal!) evidence that Vae Victus is to be considered the ideal form, we'll be the first to regard it and change the article accordingly... but I can't say I have managed to find any clue that it is. However, when I have the chance to rework/finish the article, I will add some notes about the alternate spelling. --LoK-Aevum (talk) 08:43, April 15, 2013 (UTC)
It's not a question about "a more common spelling" and an "ideal form. In this case it's as simple as "vae victis" is correct and "vae victus" is wrong. In the case of "vae victis" the word "victis" is a perfect participle passive in the dative plural form. And that's the only form it can be since it means "woe to the conquered" (in Legacy of Kain games). A "vae victus" is actually possible but it translates as "woe to the living" which Kain is not saying as we can hear in the first cutscene in game. I can only imagine that some native english speakers spell it as "vae victus" for an english pronunciation since it really sounds like that when Kain says it in game while slaying an enemy but that's the voice actor's fault. --77.56.58.2 (talk) 18:46, November 6, 2013‎‎ (UTC)
That's fair enough; this is a fairly old discussion from back in April, so we've had a chance to straighten out the facts since my previous comment. Please note that the pronunciation supposedly differs from real Latin as well, and nobody can (or should) ever correct that in the games at this stage, so it may well be adequate to assume Legacy of Kain just uses a stylised version of Latin and not the actual real-world language, and leave it there. However, rest assured, "Victus" will not be endorsed at this wiki. We also want to incorporate this newly-rediscovered information into the final article. --LoK-Aevum (talk) 20:14, November 6, 2013 (UTC)